The Old Testament, like the Koran, also orders us to kill unbelievers

Gay people are not allowed to get married in Church.   Presumably this is because it is forbidden in the Bible, as follows:
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.”  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Moses smashing the law tablets by Rembrandt.

However, the following “crimes” are also forbidden and punishable by death in the Bible.  The Bible urges us to:

(1)  Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests:   Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

(2)  Kill Witches:    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

(3)  Kill Fortune tellers:   A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

(4)  Kill anyone who hits Dad or Mum:  Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

(5)  Kill anyone who curses their parents:  a) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

b) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

(6)  Kill anyone who commits Adultery:  If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

(7)  Kill anyone who commits Fornication:  A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

(8)  Kill anyone who follows another Religion: Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

(9)  Kill False Prophets:   If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.”  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

(10)  Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God.  You also have to slaughter the livestock:   Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.”  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

(12)  Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night:  But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

(13)  Kill anyone who works on a Sunday Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

It is recognised in our society how barbaric are the above so called crimes.  We cannot abide by such laws selectively.  We should observe all or none.  We should therefore accept that to penalise gay people in any way is not right, it is not fair, and gay people are being persecuted when we call ourselves civilised.  It is wrong.   As Dick Cheney has said, freedom is for everyone, and we should move on from the Dark Ages.

And after all, the form of marriage advocated by the Old Testament is polygamy.

26 responses to “The Old Testament, like the Koran, also orders us to kill unbelievers

  1. Absolutely stupid. We clearly see that all the above “crimes” are ridiculous but still penalise gay people as though that was right.

  2. The quotations from the Bible show that all these so called “crimes” are absolutely stupid and unacceptable to us today. Why should we then selectively penalise gay people? It is terribly wrong and I am going to continue to blog about this until something changes.

  3. Don’t misinterpret society’s tolerance of homosexuality as being the indication that all terms of reference are to be changed to suit their lifestyle.

    So, rather than mocking the church by exposing some of its fragile foundations, take an introspective; on whether non-creative relationships in wanting to become part of a secular pro-creative one, is inanely hypocritical and risks destroying its very existence?

    At the very least; if the reason for a Church existing does not sit well with homosexuals they should consider not only why, but how to create an acceptable Church of their own. (a Church which BTW without pro-creation might dissolve in two generations)

    The pro-creative nature of mankind and most religion’s is the morale foundation for most beliefs. So, while me and many consider it acceptable for people to make life choices, I certainly do find it absolutely abhorrent that those making some life choices should expect others to fully accept them , or scream blue murder when they dont.

    Answer this: Does homosexuality fail in its lack of appreciation that mankind would cease if they persuaded all to exist as they do?

    So DM me for contact details if you want to sue.

    • Ymton Emanlear

      “Don’t misinterpret society’s tolerance of homosexuality…” Tolerance? this assertion could only come from a liar or person ignorant (willfully ignorant?) of the prejudice, ridicule, bigotry, violence and oppression that gays still experience in the U.S. Certainly, things have improved but to claim that the present atmosphere is “tolerant” is ridiculous.

      “So, rather than mocking the church by exposing some of its fragile foundations…”. The very point of the argument is that the church’s dogma is built upon such fragile foundations that the dogma itself cannot be considered valid.

      “…non-creative relationships in wanting to become part of a secular pro-creative one…” Nice smoke and mirrors, but the ability to make babies has no (or rather shouldn’t have any) bearing on how a couple should be treated by society and the government.

      “…if the reason for a Church existing does not sit well with homosexuals…” Speaking for myself only, I don’t have a problem at all with the *stated* reasons for the church’s existence. The problem with the Catholic church is the hypocrisy of its treatment of gays versus the philosophy and teachings of Christ.

      “…to create an acceptable Church of their own.” Why any gay person, who has experienced the persecutions which only religion can justify with a straight face, would ever want to establish a new church is beyond me.

      “(a Church which BTW without pro-creation might dissolve in two generations)” You sure have a serious jones about making babies.

      “The pro-creative nature of mankind and most religion’s is the morale foundation for most beliefs.”…which doesn’t make those beliefs valid, internally consistent, or compassionate towards others.

      “So, while me and many consider it acceptable…” Claiming membership of a large group of similar belief is usually a sign that the claimant knowingly has a weak position. I have to agree.

      “life choices” The carefully crafted language of the politically correct bigot. This phrase, invented by those that disapprove of gays’ inherent desires, continues to be used while it is knowingly offensive to gays (because it presumes that all gays made the choice to be gay). It is also continues to be used to unify the ignorant and oppressive by allowing them to tell themselves that they’re being compassionate because they’re not shouting “*aggot”. Spare me your faux compassion.

      “I certainly do find it absolutely abhorrent that those making some life choices should expect others to fully accept them , or scream blue murder when they dont.” You mean like expecting everyone else to adhere to your particular religious beliefs?

      “Answer this: Does homosexuality fail in its lack of appreciation that mankind would cease if they persuaded all to exist as they do?” Aside from this being such a gross grammatical abortion that it’s almost incomprehensible, the precept upon which it is based is obviously contrived with little logic though behind it. Since when are gays trying to “convert” all of humanity to becoming exclusively homosexual? Do I sense some blind paranoia?

      BTW: while you may believe that your use of passive voice makes you sound intelligent, most people find it merely annoying. I suggest that you take a look at the following page for tips on the use of passive voice: http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/passivevoice.html

      • Ymton, thank you so much for your thoughtful reply, which I appreciate.

        Since I have written articles on gay rights, I have come to realise what horrible treatment gay people receive. Why should gay people be “tolerated” anyway, and how rude is that?

      • Seriously, Ymton I am neither your problem or the seat of your issues. Neither do I give a rats ass about seeming intelligent or a bigot.

    • Ymton Emanlaer

      As the world *should have* learned from WWII, intolerance, prejudice and bigotry – of any group for any reason – if left unchallenged can lead to the worst horrors and depravities of which man is capable. 11 million people were exterminated because of intolerance. In my own small way, I’m saying “Never again”. That is why I will not let trash such as your post go unchallenged, and that is why *you* are part of the problem.

      • Ymton, I respect your right to say what you have said, but am a bit perplexed why you think I am being intolerant.

    • Ymton Emanlaer

      @angelnstar: My previous reply was in response to The Polleetickle, not you. I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said.

  4. Pollee, I am very surprised at your reaction. It is not making fun of the church to give actual quotations of “crimes” that nowadays we would find it totally ridiculous to punish. They are ridiculous crimes! Why should we not take these things seriously and ac cept they should not be punished, but punish gay people? It is illogical.

    Gay people have the right to expect the same freedoms and liberties as straight people. There are different ways of making love to someone: I find nothing abhorrent in gay sex. I don’t have a problem with it when I think about it, which is rarely. I do not consider it my business to interfere. I do know this. Gay people have feelings and those feelings should be respected.

    I don’t really understand the point of your question about mankind ceasing to exist. What does it matter if some people procreate and some people don’t? But we should not be selective about what we believe in the Bible is punishable. It sounds like you think gay people are some lower species, I am actually shocked. It is so dreadfully unkind.

    Pollee, you know I believe that gay people are treated terribly. I simply cannot understand your view, which I do find appalling, but we are never going to understand each other on this subject.

    Ha Ha, now I come to think of it, the crimes are awfully funny, particularly the one about wiping out livestock! It’s droll!

    I am actually quite religious and pray on a daily basis, not necessarily on my knees though.

  5. “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. ” Matthew 7: 1-5

  6. Good post, nice work putting together the Holiness Codes list of stonable offenses.

    It does seem to be indicative of a sublime hypocrisy when one verse of scripture should be vehemently enforced, while one previous or following it should be totally ignored.

    The Hebrew/Greek scriptures do not condemn homosexuality, although pagan rituals which did include acts between two men God did address as negative. In Leviticus (translated to English) we find the word “abomination” which simply does not mean “abomination” in the original texts.

    I’ve written an article called Same Sex’d and Saved on my blog, which I think would be helpful reading for same-sexed people under the stress of anti-gay oppression.

  7. Hi Jahriel. As you see, I am accused of making fun of the Holiness list of stonable offences. Now I think of it, that’s a pretty good thing to do to them!

    “It does seem to be indicative of a sublime hypocrisy when one verse of scripture should be vehemently enforced, while one previous or following it should be totally ignored. ” My point exactly, why be selective?

    The day that it is recognised that peoples’ sex lives are private and nothing to do with anyone else will be a huge step forward for humanity. Why do people believe they have the right to judge or interfere?

    If anything offends them, just don’t think about it, problem solved. I cannot believe that anyone is denied the right to get married in Church because of what happens in the bedroom. The Catholic Church, anyway, is not something I respect after those awful abuse scandals.

    Will check out your blog, great to hear from you.

  8. I take the point you are making. Gay people are born not made. How can you be blamed for something you have no control over?

  9. I cannot believe that people exist who are as ignorant as polleetickle. What planet do these people come from?

  10. Jahriel should be totally aware that the fragility and hypocrisy of the Church is well known and documented, thanks.

    A Church not willing to change its beliefs for the sake of a few certainly isn’t oppression. Gays being stopped from either seeking another or creating their own religion, would be.

    However, its no surprise that anyone offering an alternative to the views written in support of Gays would be regarded as ignorant, but my suggestion is that angelnstar and dawn who clearly don’t get out much should (abusive, therefore deleted by Editor).

  11. Pollee it is an awful shame that you have to descend to abusing gay people and I apologise to any gay person reading your unkind remarks on your behalf.

  12. @Polleetickel:
    I guess my concern regarding the frailty and hypocrisy of the church you spoke of is that the Jesus I have read extensively about for over 35 years was neither frail nor hypocritical. In fact, in Mark 7:6-8 he was quite clear regarding his unwavering view of hypocrisy:
    He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
    ‘ This people honors Me with their lips,
    But their heart is far from Me.
    And in vain they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
    For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”

    So, if the original Scriptures do not condemn homosexuality, then logically speaking we would be in error to declare as sin that which God has not. Jesus called such a false doctrine a ‘commandment of men’.

    I support your view that anyone who doesn’t approve of a belief system of a church should possibly consider starting their own. The only thing I would add to that is that any church preaching as doctrine something the Christ never taught should consider removing the person of the Christ from church. After all, if his teachings are going to be altered, then it stands to reason that those teachings are flawed if they require modification. And his second most important teaching to his followers was:

    Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

    The reason articles like angelnstar’s and others have been written, in my opinion, is because people who are not gay very often tend to verbally or physically attack people who are, as though somehow God has their name written in a more special Book of Life than the lowly homosexuals.

    Either you’re in there or you’re not. Right? . . .

  13. Well said Jahriel, “love your neighbour as you love yourself.”

    I find it deeply upsetting that gay people are treated in the way they are. I watched Matthew Parris on Question Time several weeks ago, dealing with the gross insensitivity and brutish ignorance of Kelvin Mackenzie on the subject of David Laws. I cringed for the ignorance of Kelvin Mackenzie, and I thought Mr. Parris was really courageous to deal with the absolute stupidity of Mr. Mackenzie.

    There is no reason to deny gay people equal rights, they should be allowed to marry in Church and the Roman Catholic Church in my view is an abomination. It chose to protect its own priests, rather than deliver justice to innocent kids whose lives were totally ruined by those priests.

    Pollee I am stunned and horrified at some of the things you have said, because in other ways, you are an intelligent and decent person.
    I agree with Jahriel, that the Catholic Church does not in any way represent the compassion and love of Jesus Christ as I understand it. Anyway, shouldn’t we be making up our own minds in this day and age what is right and wrong?

  14. The Bible is consistent and clear but people love to take scripture out of context. You’re correct Exodus 31: 12-15 does say working on the sabbath is punishable with and God mention this for the Isralites with whom he had convenant up until this day which they honor.
    Find reference in the New testament which is where salvation was given to the gentiles.
    Sin was sin in the Old and New Testament GOD will not tolerate it and those who do don’t confess and repent of their sins will be lost.
    Don’t try and use the God word against itself it can’t be done.

  15. Carvin, you misunderstand my point. I don’t agree that we should accept the Bible blindly as to what is sinful and what is not.

    There are too many inconsistencies and contradictions. The broad message of Christs teaching though was Love thy neighbour, be good to them that hate you. That totally does not fit in with the way some Christians treat gay people. If these people want to follow the Old Testament and condemn gay people to death, they should also abide by the commands I have listed about.

    You cannot be selective and follow the one referring to gay people, but then ignore all the others.

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